65 Patrol Rebuild Starts Here

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Re: 65 Patrol Rebuild Starts Here

Post by moore_rb »

Blue smoke is usually oil, but can also be coolant burning. The way to tell is to smell it... (total old-school troubleshooting- Go stick your nose in the exhaust, and take big whiff, hahaha 8-) )

burining coolant smells "sweet" (similar to the unique smell of charcoal lighter fluid burning)- burning oil smells "sour" (like burning oil hehehe)

If the smoke is from coolant burning, then you probably got a bad head gasket going on in there...

However, if you've verified that the smoke is indeed from oil burning, then there are only 3 ways it can be getting into the combustion chamber of a running engine:

1) piston ring blow-by
2) worn valve guides
3) it's being sucked in through a vacuum leak that has access to an external oil leak (like maybe a bad intake gasket that is sucking oil from a leaky valve cover above it)

Number 3 is easy to verify, or to rule out- just look for external oil leaks around potential intake vacuum sources

A compression test can help you (and Craig) determine whether it may be number 1 or 2:

A) good compression (110psi+) across all 6 cylinders means that the rings are probably sealing ok, and the smoke is probably from valve seals
B) Bad (below 100PSI), or sporadic compression readings from cylinder to cylinder, mean the rings may be suspect. (weak or sporadic compression might also mean that you have bad valve seats, which won't necessarily mean oil consumption, but will add evidence that the engine is just old and tired.

Also- Pay attention to WHEN it smokes:

a cold engine that blows blue smoke until it gets hot, and then the smoking declines as the engine gets hotter, is indicative of worn valve guides (if it's burning coolant, it might also exhibit this symptom).
a cold engine that blue-smokes under throttle load, and still blue-smokes under load, even as the engine gets hotter, is indicative of bad rings.

Good luck.
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Re: 65 Patrol Rebuild Starts Here

Post by L60Boerne »

Rob, I am so thankful for your direction. With this, we will get to the finish line. Craig is an excellent mechanic, plus we have had a compression check at where Craig works so we have a record of that.

I'll report back after Craig follows your script.

Merry Christmas,
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Re: 65 Patrol Rebuild Starts Here

Post by rickheiserman »

L60Boerne,

For good or for bad, I have very much enjoyed your posts on here. And, while I am at the begining of my own project, and still learning about the Patrol, I have read through this (your) thread, and your posts have taught me a lot(with the inclusion of all of those who have contributed along your journey) I am thankful for your updates, and we are all looking forward to photos of your Patrol(s) in their current state of repair.

All the best,

Rick
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Re: 65 Patrol Rebuild Starts Here

Post by L60Boerne »

Thank you, I have been blessed with the many experts that have given me their valuable time, experience, advice and parts. They set a high standard of giving for us to follow.

Esteban as we type is helping me source and modify a Carter carb...which is not easy as that little "bar bell" looking connector must be custom made.

If this goes on much longer I'll be logging in under an assumed name from a safe house as "Hill Country Automotive" makes my wife reach for a second shake of the rat poison bottle she has started dusting my mashed potatoes with.

Double Clutchin for now,
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Re: 65 Patrol Rebuild Starts Here

Post by plateaucal »

L60Boerne,

I can send you a photo of my "barbell" that is in my spare parts bin. Might work. Oh my, Patrolers are a desperate lot.
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Re: 65 Patrol Rebuild Starts Here

Post by L60Boerne »

Greetings,
King Kong Craig is pulling the transmission out to double check the installation of the new clutch from 4WD in Australia.

I sure hope the vibration goes away. Then we will assess the smoke. As reported the compression test was good except for cylinder #2 at 125 psi.

Sounds like a value pinging on occasion. Sure hope I don't need to rebuild that motor. We will see.

Double Clutchin when possible,
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Re: 65 Patrol Rebuild Starts Here

Post by L60Boerne »

Greetings,

It is a new year! Out with the old, in with the new. Ugh. Craig removed the clutch. We ran the motor yesterday and the vibration was still there. Somehow though all the work a vibration as snuck into the steering wheel. Oh well, the motor did have a rattle here and there. I'll have the water pump and maybe the drive shafts rebuilt as well.

Question - I'm in charge of sourcing parts. Which parts will be the most difficult to source? I have low millage replacement pistons, lifters, timing gear set, oil thrower, connecting rods, front motor mounts, fan, cylinder head, exhaust manifold, crankshaft pulley, and a spare new oil pump.

Craig was concerned about sourcing main bearings. I'll go check the CPL now, for those, but any advance notice on things to watch out for would be appreciated.

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Re: 65 Patrol Rebuild Starts Here

Post by Esteban »

Regarding parts, it all depends whether you are going to machine the engine or not, so you can order the corresponding pistons, rings, main bearings and connecting rod bearings.

What is of some concern is the vibration you mention. Anything like that will have to be determined before dismantling the engine, by any troubleshooting measures. A piston that's not firing will definitely cause some vibration, but at the same time that will be easy to check. It's very worrisome that the source of vibration has not been determined yet.. The condition of the engine mounts will not contribute anything to this vibration issue.

The valve pinging or preignition that you mentioned before, will point to an over advanced ignition timing to one of its causes. This in turn could be exacerbating the vibration issue if there's a couple of pistons not firing.

Hope your mechanic can find the culprit soon. I'm sure it will be something simple at the end.
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Re: 65 Patrol Rebuild Starts Here

Post by L60Boerne »

Thank you Esteban, I agree. After spending several hours reading the forum on everyone's experiences with motor rebuilds I've decided to button it up and take it to another mechanic. The fourth to date. Craig is excellent but at the end of the day we need to know the source of the vibration before we go any further.

While this is going on I will be keeping my eyes open for a freshly rebuilt motor.

Thanks to all,
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Re: 65 Patrol Rebuild Starts Here

Post by RiverPatrol »

This really makes me wish I were closer to you. I enjoy trouble shooting Patrol issues and have yet to have a problem stump me. This is one that needs addressing in prison though. I am glad to hear that you are postponing the rebuild until the problem is isolated.
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