Soft Top Frame replacement options?

[azsteve]

A few questions about soft top frames for the forum...

1. Has anyone had a replacement frame fabricated? If so, where'd you go? How much did it cost? How did it work out for you?

2. What about substitute frames from other vehicles? I realize there are a lot of ways to skin this cat, but is any one of them particularly better than the others? How much modding was/is usually required?

3. Canvas... this can be sourced from a ton of different places with the right measurements, right?

4. Does anyone have a softy frame they are willing to sell? Or lend/loan to me while I pay for a machine shop to fabricate two duplicate sets (one for me, one for posterity)? Or is this even necessary, could it be done instead with a good accurate set of measurements?

I realize each of these questions could be a topic of its own, sorry, I hope it's not too much to ask in one chunk. I've searched through this and other forums looking for info... it's out there but in little dribbles here and there and is lacking specifics... so, please, answer one question, answer 'em all... any and all info/opinions are very much appreciated!!

[miksum56]

No problem at all Steve if you can wait for Riverpatrol to step in! After all, she's got a Mac

[RiverPatrol]

To answer your questions: it depends.
It depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

Do you just want a frame to stretch some canvas over? Or are you attempting to recreate a like-stock soft top frame? You could easily come up with something that will hold up canvas. Fabricating a stock frame is not so easy.

The biggest challenge with fabricating a soft top frame is the cantrail and the door post. Both of these pieces are critical to the stock frame but they are very complex body pieces. I have not seen a successful fabrication of these pieces yet. There was a guy in Winslow, AZ, a few months back that started giving it a good try. He had a good start on the door post then he disappeared. I have seen frames custom made by bending tubing; they work. Someone once used a Jeep frame; again, it worked. Neither of these solutions looked close to stock though. I am not aware of any other vehicles soft top frame that can be easily modified to work. Looking at pictures, a Land Rover Defender soft top frame looks very similar, and might be useable, but I don't know that anyone has ever tried.

Regarding the canvas, it depends. What do you want? Stock looking? I am not aware of an aftermarket canvas that is like stock. The closest I have seen is green army tent canvas, but it shrinks too much. Once in a great while a soft top canvas will show up on eBay. G60michael just landed one not too long ago, I don't think he ever did reveal his source. Usually the ones that do show up are for a medium wheel base, so they are 12" longer than our US Patrol (short wheel base) would use. I ended up with one of these original NOS soft top canvas a few years ago. As soon as I got it I took the canvas and the Patrol to an upholstery shop and had them tailor the top, removing the unneeded extra 12 inches. That's my green soft top. I have also had that same upholstery shop make 2 new canvas tops using that original one as a pattern. The canvas that I had them use was Hartz Stayfast, which is very good canvas. It is what is used on Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar and others from the factory. The cost to have those made, 6 years ago, was $1000 each.

Soft top frames show up even less frequently than the canvas. But, nothing is impossible...
I looked into having one fabricated once; drove the Patrol to a metal fabricator to get a quote. He wouldn't even give me a price, just said it would be by the hour, but that it would be over $1200. So, it ain't easy.

And the biggest questions is: how much do you want to spend?

[Sierra Patrol]

And this is why I jumped on my patrol when I realized the soft top frame was complete and somebody just sheeted the frame with aluminum.

[azsteve]

Do you just want a frame to stretch some canvas over? Or are you attempting to recreate a like-stock soft top frame? You could easily come up with something that will hold up canvas. Fabricating a stock frame is not so easy.

I've been giving that question some thought...
I figure that because I have no frame at all, and any replacement would probably 1.not be cheap and 2. will require some fabrication, I might as well spend the money to get as close to stock as possible.

The biggest challenge with fabricating a soft top frame is the cantrail and the door post. Both of these pieces are critical to the stock frame but they are very complex body pieces. I have not seen a successful fabrication of these pieces yet. There was a guy in Winslow, AZ, a few months back that started giving it a good try. He had a good start on the door post then he disappeared.

I had a conversation with that guy the other day which really was the impetus for posting this thread...

Since he has always shared his info with me so freely and is a nice guy, I'm sure he won't mind if I fill you in on him a bit more. His name is Ron, works for the railroad, has 9 (iirc) patrols, seems very mechanically inclined. I met him by calling a 2 year old internet ad on some obscure, semi-defunct autos for sale site, ad posted for a 350$ patrol motor. Finding out that he had all these patrols, all this knowledge, and hadnt heard of the forums or involved himself in the patrol "community" at all was wild. He's a busy guy, just hard to get a hold of, but I will be paying him a visit next weekend (tentative) so we can talk patrols. I think there is a collaboration incubating between us towards fabricating a softy frame (...or three).
btw, I told him about 60patrol, he said he will check it out, so we should expect a new member any day now.

Regarding the canvas, it depends. What do you want? Stock looking? I am not aware of an aftermarket canvas that is like stock. The closest I have seen is green army tent canvas, but it shrinks too much. Once in a great while a soft top canvas will show up on eBay. G60michael just landed one not too long ago, I don't think he ever did reveal his source. Usually the ones that do show up are for a medium wheel base, so they are 12" longer than our US Patrol (short wheel base) would use. I ended up with one of these original NOS soft top canvas a few years ago. As soon as I got it I took the canvas and the Patrol to an upholstery shop and had them tailor the top, removing the unneeded extra 12 inches. That's my green soft top. I have also had that same upholstery shop make 2 new canvas tops using that original one as a pattern. The canvas that I had them use was Hartz Stayfast, which is very good canvas. It is what is used on Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar and others from the factory. The cost to have those made, 6 years ago, was $1000 each.

-Yeah, I do want stock looking. Seems like haartz is the company to go with... good website, lots of options. Also it's a way to buy wholesale price, maybe, and save a few bucks.

G60Michael.... since youve already got your top... care to share your source???

I looked into having one fabricated once; drove the Patrol to a metal fabricator to get a quote. He wouldn't even give me a price, just said it would be by the hour, but that it would be over $1200. So, it ain't easy.

And the biggest questions is: how much do you want to spend?

I will spend what it takes, but as little as possible, you know? based on what youve said so far, WORST case scenario is 2700 for a new top... I am confident I can chop that number down a fair amount. And because I can't be alone in what I'm looking for, perhaps with some other members jumping onboard we can get a group buy rate on this...

I need coffee and a cigarette, woke up a little while ago and skipped my morning routine to type this reply... not sure what that means... addiction to patrol becoming my alpha addiction? Mssr's Winston and Folger are pissed.

[RiverPatrol]

Yeah, Ron is the guy. I hope he shows up here, he is probably a wealth of information. I would think if anyone can fab the soft top pieces he could.

Regarding the canvas: the Hartz Stayfast does not have anything that looks even close to the factory green color. You just end up with an extremely durable top. I had one sit out for over a year in the CA sun and it didn't fade or dry out at all.