Tackling a full rewire on a 67 and a few other things too

[Cameron110]

Hi all, This thread will serve a couple or purposes: a noob intro for me, a report on some work we'll be doing on my brothers patrol and a log of the references we find and use while doing the work. (mods feel to relocate this if you think there is a better place for it, i dropped it here since we will be doing both electrical and mechanical work)

Intro bit:
I'll be flying out next week to spend a week with my brother Marshall working on his '67 patrol. We've spent many an hour on face time working on the truck together but this will be the first time I get to see it in person, I'm super excited. Most of my wrenching experience is with bikes, older BMWs to be specific. Here are a couple threads on some work I've done for those looking for a diversion: my current project is a '67 R50/2 before that I did a big 100k mi refresh on my '93 R100GSPD and resurrection of derelict '70 R75/5 I've also done a full bare block engine rebuild on the 22re on my 87 4runner but I never posted that anywhere.

The plan for next week:
1) Attempt a full rewire of the truck starting with this universal kit from ebay it seemed like a reasonable balance of price and features to be a decent starting point but as with anything from ebay the jury is out until we can check it out in hand. He has a bunch of electrical gremlins with the existing wiring and it appears to be patches layered on bodges layered on hacks so a clean slate will be the reliable fix.

2) Try to get some gauges working. Oil pressure and water temp at a minimum, that may mean temporary cheapo aftermarket gauges so we can take our time rebuilding the OEM units or saving up for something nice from http://www.speedhut.com/

3) Probably drop the trans to investigate if the "whining transmission" the top theory on the culprit at this point is the throw-out bearing

4) Address what ever else we find along the way, I'm sure this list will grow.

ok enough for now, we'll see where this goes when I get out there on Saturday.

Finally a big thanks to the all the folks on this forum who have posted info in the past, it has been a hugely helpful resource to us so far.

Edit:
Speaking of resources, I'm going to start stacking the links here in order to have the references I find in one place.

Wiring:

Wiring Diagram: http://www.60patrol.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1671
Wiper motor bench test: http://60patrol.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4196


Some general references I sent marshall to start learning more about wiring and vehicle electrics:
Good basic explanation on core concepts of wiring: http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wik ... iring_101
Watts = Volts x amps wait what?? http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki ... ical_loads
In depth discussion on headlight wiring: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech ... elays.html

Gauges:
Speedo rebuild in a sticky in this section: http://www.60patrol.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2978
Gauge regulator rebuild: http://www.60patrol.com/forum/viewtopic ... tor#p30600

General maintenance:
The mother list: http://parts.60patrol.com/
Valve clearance check: http://www.60patrol.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2420
Another Patrol forum with a section for the older trucks: http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/classic- ... atrols-13/

[RiverPatrol]

Question: why are you doing a complete rewire? The only times I find it necessary to do a rewire is when the harness has been burnt or someone butchered the harness cutting and splicing. Sounds like you might be dealing with the latter though.

If you are only having problems with gauges, it is probably the gauge regulator. '67 was the first year to have one. Here is a post that explains how to fix it: http://www.60patrol.com/forum/viewtopic ... tor#p30600

Pulling the trans is a pretty big job. Try to isolate where and when the noise is coming from first. We never got those answers when attempting to help diagnose the noise for Marshall.

[Cameron110]

RiverPatrol, Thanks for the thoughts. You are correct, I think we are looking at a fairly hacked up system and some occult corrosion damage as well. Marshall is having weird voltage drops in various places and in my many facetime tours of the truck it looks like a fair bit of hacking had gone on in the past. We are holding off on the final decision about a full rewire until I see it in person but I think it is likely to be the best solution. Marshall's end goal for the truck is more of a reliable daily driver restomod than a perfect factory original restoration so if a full refresh of the electrics makes sense he's good with it.

Thanks very much for the link about the gauge regulator, we probably wouldn't have found that buried in the other thread.
We would definitely prefer to to use the original gauges if possible and this may be a critical part of making that happen.

As for the throw-out bearing, a drive and an in person evaluation is most certainly the first step before getting into the heavy work of pulling the trans. We'll get the findings posted up next weekend when I get there so we can tap into the collective wisdom to aid in the diagnosis.

[Marshall]

Cam got here in the middle of the night last night and we are starting to look at a few things this morning. To give you an idea of where we are starting from, currently the headlights and running lights all work, but brake lights and blinkers don't - and this is the state of the fuse block.


For the wiring one of the top priorities is getting the blinkers and brake lights working. We are thinking that this module with the H/B/S is the signal modulator for the single filament bulbs, is this correct?

We're diggin through G60Michaels thread on wiring his 66, but haven't found the info we need yet.

We were thinking of using a trailer adapter, which would allow us to integrate blinker and brake light on a single filament, but we're not finding a product that will do running lights as well as blinker and brake. We checked the compatible parts list, anyone found anything for this before?

Final random question: does anyone have any theories on what this may be??

[RiverPatrol]

Actually, other than missing fuses, your fuse block doesn't look too bad. There are a couple of wires added to the top junctions that are suspicious. If they are to power something they should be on the bottom.

There is not a signal modulator for the lights. The relay in the picture is the horn relay.

If the headlights and running lights work, that's the major part of the battle. Brake lights and blinkers are easy. No need to rewire for that.

Following G60Michaels thread may just serve to confuse you more. He still struggles with electrical. I offered to fly out and do it for him if he paid for the flight, but he wouldn't go for it.

Not sure what the unknown item is. I'd need to know where the wires are leading to.

I'm pretty familiar with the wiring on these things. In fact I'm rewiring the rear of one of my trucks currently. If you'd like to call me, send me a PM and I'll shoot you my number.

And, I'm sorry but I really can't pass up this opportunity to say this: Marshall, you could be driving my '69 right now.

[Cameron110]

thanks for the offer of a phone consult, I'd definitely like to take you up on that in a day or two. First I want to spend a good bit of time getting my head around the existing wiring so that in can save your time and patience for things I can't figure out on my own.

I agree with you that some things have definitely been moved to the "wrong" side of the fuse block. Marshall also has a parasitic drain somewhere that kills his battery in a couple days if he doesn't disconnect the ground. In a first quick look I found more than a few cracks and rubs that have let the green death into the old wiring :





after a quick look around top priority is the rubber rear brake lines. We can't disable the truck until Monday so today and tomorrow are research and planning days.

ok my first 'open eyes first then open mouth' moment of many more to come: I was assuming based on the limited perspective of being 3500 miles from the truck i was trying to help work on that the marker lights were single filament bulbs with a module to flash or intensify them for the brake and blinker function. i just popped a lens and realized that there is no ground wire and they are dual filament bulbs. this just got much easier


also I apologize for this and the rest of the posts this week that will be rife with typos. i'm working from my tablet rather than a proper computer. Sorry

[RiverPatrol]

That's one thing I hate about test lights - poking them through the insulation. I usually try to tape or seal those spots.

No need to apologize for anything here.

[jwgreen]

There are a couple wiring diagrams on here somewhere that will help you figure out some stuff. I've been using them as I try to rewire mine.

[plateaucal]

I would definitely clean up that fuse box. I had my starter cut out because of corrosion from the connections at the fuse box. A little sand paper...all good. My Chiltons wiring diagram has been spot on, so far.

[Cameron110]

Thanks everyone for the replies:

jwgreen: We have been looking at the wiring diagrams for few weeks now, mostly the ones we found on the thread linked in the first post of this thread, and a few we found on the web. There is one that RiverPatrol posted as being from a 67 that is the one we are looking at primarily. The one mismatch that I have identified so far is that the diagram shows 6 fuses but the truck only has tabs for 5 with the 6th position just being connections and it doesn't appear to be modified. this can be seen in the photo above.

plateaucal: The corrosion on the fuse block is just the tip of the electrical clean up iceberg and believe me it is no small endeavor. The jury is still out on exactly what we will clean up and what we will fully rewire. We'll just see how the week goes.


Day one summary:

We didn't have much time to work on the truck, it was little league play offs today for the team Marshall helps coach and they made it to the finals so we spent most of the day at the ball field. Added to that I landed at 1:30 am last night so between the time change and a lack of sleep my brain is pinging and misfiring a bit.

some general impressions and observations:
- the truck starts very nicely despite a weak (12.3v) battery and runs very smoothly which is gratifying after many hours of carb adjustments and cleaning by face time
- the clutch/throwout bearing noise that Marshall has posted about didn't happen on the way to or from the game so nothing to report there yet
- the truck is nice and solid, as you would expect for a desert truck, it is and will continue to be a very worth while project. very cool.
- there is a parasitic drain of just over 1 amp with the key and all things off. This seems really high to me. I would expect a vehicle of this age to have zero load while off, there is no clock, ecu or stereo that needs to stay powered when the key is off
- the alternator / AC compressor belt is very loose
- many things work with the key off and no fuses in the truck (needless to say this is not ideal): headlights, high and low, dash lights, running lights, license plate light and the AC compressor trigger

Marshall is fairly new to wrenching with this truck being his first really big project car and he very new to electrical work so we started small this evening. First we measured the previously mentioned parasitic drain and chased it into the dash (which we haven't opened yet). Then I wanted something more concrete for him to wrap his head around so we evaluated the horn circuit. Findings: horns both functional, relay fully functional, all wiring intact and free of ground faults. The only problem we found was with the button which despite disassembly and cleaning is still not functioning. with the button out we could wiggle one of the wire U's just right to trigger it but it was spotty and doesn't work at all when reassembled. I think we'll need to pull the steering wheel.

digging into that brought up another question:


I assume since there is a castle nut there but not enough shaft to have a cotter pin hole that something is amiss. Thoughts