When I purchased my Patrol, the previous owner noted that the water pump had recently begun to leak. He thought it may have been due to overgreasing it once.
Having learned that the water pump can no longer be found, I decided that I would tear it down and either have Kelloggs (http://www.kelloggautomotive.com) rebuild it or, if it looked like something I could do myself, order the rebuild kit from them.
To prepare, I read Sierra Patrol's guide (http://www.60patrol.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1880), studied the 1965 Parts Catalog (part 2 starting at 19-1), and reviewed the Model P Engine Service Manual (pages 68-69).
I undertook this without a press (not the preferable method) but had a cheap pulley puller. I think that would be close to a requirement.
I experienced a couple of gotchas. First, like Sierra Patrol, the Woodruff Key was plain stuck. After much struggle, I got it out but wouldn't recommend my method. Also, after taking out the bearing snap ring the front seal plate did not want to come out. Likely a lot of gunk. Below the front seal plate I had both a washer and a shim, not just a washer as Sierra Patrol did. It was so thin, and made of a paper-like material, that I can't imagine it shims much (.13mm per manual).
After inspection of the separated shaft I noticed an area of scoring that barely caught a finger nail. See the thin black line to the left of the thick black band where my thumb is pointing. Is this an issue?
Inspection of the inner wall of the felt cover plate revealed decay. After measuring, that is where the scoring on the shaft came from.
The bakelite seal below the impeller snap ring almost looks like it has shrunk. The two ears still extend out but the remainder does not meet the side walls. There is a gap all the way around. The snap ring is only on top of it on the two ears. Is this normal?
As you can see above my thumb, there is also signs of leakage from both cutouts.
That is where the bakelite seal, seal retainer, and rubber seal are located. Should that be happening? I haven't removed those parts yet in case it is normal.
Kellogg's does a rebuild for $225 or so plus shipping. They haven't gotten back to me yet on the cost of a rebuild kit, what is included, and whether I can just purchase seals.
Does anyone know if the felt cover plate (#27 in the exploded view on 19-1 of the 1965 Parts Catalog), or a compatible substitute, can be had, instead of an entire rebuild kit? Or should the bearings be replaced anyway once they have been punched out? Does the shaft look like it is acceptable for a rebuild? Any concern with the bakelite seal and the leakage in that area? Do I need to disassemble and inspect the rubber seal beneath it to be sure?
Water Pump Rebuild
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Re: Water Pump Rebuild
I think the original pump is still available in Japan, at www.amayama.com.
It will probably cost less than the rebuild.
It will probably cost less than the rebuild.
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Re: Water Pump Rebuild
I am still waiting to hear back from Amayama. They apparently have to investigate further. Unfortunately it is not available for purchase on their website (http://www.amayama.com/en/part/nissan/21010c4925).
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Re: Water Pump Rebuild
The Model P Engine Service manual suggests a simple test to determine whether the spring and seals on the impeller side are functioning correctly. If you press down on the bakelite seal and then release it should pop right back up. I could barely depress mine whatsover. The little I could see of the rubber seal on the sides made me suspect there might be an issue with it. So I removed the impeller snap ring and bakelite seal. The rubber seal was toast. It was just melted to the spring and impeller base. I had to pull it out in pieces I honestly don't know how this water pump was even functioning!
After further thought, I don't believe the bakelite seal is supposed to extend to the outside of the impeller housing and should be fine.
A couple of additional gotchas from a beginner's perspective. I don't know if you can punch out the shaft assembly parts (bearings and seals) without doing any damage. I messed up the rear seal plate while getting it all out. I would plan on getting an entire shaft assembly rather than individual parts.
Also, at the back of the housing tunnel there is a substantial metal piece that looks like it was pressed in from the back side of the housing. That does not come out. It is cupped shaped on the upper side (nose side) and accepts the felt seal, bearings, and rest of the shaft assembly parts.
After further thought, I don't believe the bakelite seal is supposed to extend to the outside of the impeller housing and should be fine.
A couple of additional gotchas from a beginner's perspective. I don't know if you can punch out the shaft assembly parts (bearings and seals) without doing any damage. I messed up the rear seal plate while getting it all out. I would plan on getting an entire shaft assembly rather than individual parts.
Also, at the back of the housing tunnel there is a substantial metal piece that looks like it was pressed in from the back side of the housing. That does not come out. It is cupped shaped on the upper side (nose side) and accepts the felt seal, bearings, and rest of the shaft assembly parts.
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Re: Water Pump Rebuild
Maybe you could find a used one from someone. If your water pump is the type that has the zirk fitting for greasing, it is the older style pump and you might be better off 'upgrading' it anyway. Kind of odd that your '69 would have the older style fuel pump and water pump. Maybe someone did an engine swap with an earlier engine. 
Beyond any hope for intervention
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Re: Water Pump Rebuild
Perhaps. When it was put in the registry the engine number was included. Would it be noted if it didn't match the vin?
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Re: Water Pump Rebuild
Do you think a used one would be safe to assume it was ready to bolt on? If not, I'm in the same situation and have to do a rebuild.
By the way, Kellogs replaces the old style bearing assembly with a new closed system.
By the way, Kellogs replaces the old style bearing assembly with a new closed system.
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Re: Water Pump Rebuild
If the engine in your Patrol has the same number that's in the Registry, then it is the matching engine. Can you get me a picture of the engine number so I can verify?
You might end up okay with a used water pump. Hopefully whoever you get it from knows the condition. If it came from a parts vehicle there's no telling. Statistically though they last for quite a while. And as you point out, you can always have it rebuilt. You were concerned that you may have done some damage to the one you took apart, and the shaft might be scored.
You might end up okay with a used water pump. Hopefully whoever you get it from knows the condition. If it came from a parts vehicle there's no telling. Statistically though they last for quite a while. And as you point out, you can always have it rebuilt. You were concerned that you may have done some damage to the one you took apart, and the shaft might be scored.
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Re: Water Pump Rebuild
Sure thing on the picture. Though, as you can see, my phone is just awful with anything close or indoors.
Just got off the phone from Will from Kelloggs. Super knowledgeable and went out of his way to explain some of the things I needed to look out for in doing a rebuild. It sounds as though my shaft is fine.
However, there were a few other things he pointed out for those thinking of doing a rebuild themselves.
First, the pocket in which the base of the rubber seal sits can get small pits. This area needs to be bead blasted and can then be covered with something like permatex #2.
Second, the sides of the two cutouts on the impeller need to be smooth or the ears on the new bakelite/carbon seal be damaged.
Third, the piece that looks like it has been pressed in to the bottom of the tunnel in the housing has to have a super smooth surface and even though it may look that way, it may have tiny pits. He recommended using a lathe.
If I can't find a water pumpt to bolt on, I'm going to send mine out to him in Arizona to do the rebuild.
If someone is looking to do a rebuild themselves he has all the parts and will send individual parts or all of them.
Just got off the phone from Will from Kelloggs. Super knowledgeable and went out of his way to explain some of the things I needed to look out for in doing a rebuild. It sounds as though my shaft is fine.
However, there were a few other things he pointed out for those thinking of doing a rebuild themselves.
First, the pocket in which the base of the rubber seal sits can get small pits. This area needs to be bead blasted and can then be covered with something like permatex #2.
Second, the sides of the two cutouts on the impeller need to be smooth or the ears on the new bakelite/carbon seal be damaged.
Third, the piece that looks like it has been pressed in to the bottom of the tunnel in the housing has to have a super smooth surface and even though it may look that way, it may have tiny pits. He recommended using a lathe.
If I can't find a water pumpt to bolt on, I'm going to send mine out to him in Arizona to do the rebuild.
If someone is looking to do a rebuild themselves he has all the parts and will send individual parts or all of them.