Rehab of Patrol L60-2-00655

[r1lark]

Thanks Esteban!

I'm hoping to get the bottom plate under the clutch off, to see if the oil is coming from the rear main seal area (hopefully it isn't!). Plus, will pressure wash the drivers side of the engine........hopefully will be able to spot the source.

This will be next week when I go to my Mom's.

[r1lark]

Frustrating day working on the Patrol. Adjusted the brakes, and my brother helped me bleed them again (he is a really good pedal pumper with great communication). We have a pedal, but it's about halfway to the floor. Can't really figure out why. Under the Patrol while he was pumping the pedal, I could hear and feel each cylinder actuating. Got good flow out of the bleeders.

If you remember, this is stock brakes with new wheel cylinders, the original shoes with plenty of meat left, all new brake lines, and a Wilwood 1" dual master cylinder. I had already bleed these at length, but had the adjusters backed all the way off per the shop manual -- had never bled brakes that way, but figured what the heck I'll try it. Got lots of flow while bleeding and got air out, but never really had much of a pedal. So today I was hopeful that once the shoes where adjusted, I'd have a good pedal. But no joy.................

It's been 40 years since I drove this Patrol, so I sure can't remember what the pedal felt like. But surely it should have more than just halfway to the floor. My brother suggested maybe I didn't adjust the shoes tight enough, but did exactly what the shop manual says -- tighten the adjuster until you hear it start to touch the drum, and back off slightly. Of course, this is a judgment call.......you may here it just lightly touch in one place while turning the wheel, but I usually don't use this as the point I back off the adjuster. I tighten until I hear it scrubbing pretty much all the way around and then back off until the scrubbing mostly goes away.

I'm still rolling this around in my head. I don't want to lay the blame right now on the master cylinder, but what it feels like is the circuit to the front brakes isn't building much pressure, but the rear circuit is. Kinda like if you had a leak in the circuit to the front brakes, and only the rears are applying. I know the front cylinders are moving some because I can feel them and hear them when the pedal is pumped, but don't have a way to tell how much pressure is being built up. I did not drive the Patrol this trip, because I forgot to bring the battery, but next trip I'll drive it some down the dirt road next to my Mom's house.

I'll keep rolling this around in my head, but sure would welcome opinions and advice from others, especially those who have used the Wilwood dual master cylinder.

[Esteban]

I feel your pain!

Since you assembled everything, have you driven it? If not, I can only come at this time is that the shoes are not fully seated in their natural position inside the drums. Kind of a wild guess.

[Peter60]

Brakes are a pain!!!!!

Make sure you adjust the brake pad to be rubbing (just) on the drums. It amazing the difference this makes.

Good luck.

[RiverPatrol]

What he said!

Adjustment is critical to the pedal travel. I have saved a brake system by just adjusting correctly. Having done this many times my method is this: tighten the adjuster until you are unable to spin the wheel by hand, then back the adjuster off (usually just one or even part of one click) until the you can spin the wheel by hand and it will spin about half a turn before stopping. If the wheel free wheels a full rotation or more the brakes are too loose and the pedal will be soft. It will seem like it's too tight but when the brakes are rolling 3500 pounds down the road it's not too tight at all. Plus, your new shoes are going to wear in and you'll need to adjust the brakes frequently after you start driving it until the shoes seat in the drums fully.

[r1lark]

Thank you Esteban, Peter60, and RiverPatrol for your input!!

Next trip to the Patrol, I will take the battery and drive it up and down the dirt road next to my Mom's house. It's really a long driveway down to a neighbors house. (I don't want to take a chance on driving it down the paved road because State Troopers have been known to visit this area, and with my luck that would be just when I'm road testing an un-licensed/un-insured vehicle. ) Then I'll bring it back and jack it up and adjust per River's procedure. Based on how River has suggested adjusting the brakes, I know they are too loose.

I'm hoping that someone who has used the Wilwood 1" dual master cylinder with the stock drum brakes will chime in with their experiences and/or advice.

[Esteban]

I'm hoping that someone who has used the Wilwood 1" dual master cylinder with the stock drum brakes will chime in with their experiences and/or advice.

I have a Ford dual master cylinder attached to a power booster. This setup was on another Patrol that I totaled years ago and at that time had the original Nissan dual master cylinder. When I moved the power booster onto my current Patrol, the Ford dual master cylinder was installed instead and the only thing that I had to do at that time was to adjust the free play of the pushrod. You've done this already with your Wilwood (extensively I can say) So I don't think it has anything to do with the master cylinder. You'll be ok.

[RiverPatrol]

Thank you Esteban, Peter60, and RiverPatrol for your input!!

I'm hoping that someone who has used the Wilwood 1" dual master cylinder with the stock drum brakes will chime in with their experiences and/or advice.

I went through this very process with the shop that I had work on L60Boerne's Pinto Patrol. They rebuilt the brakes completely including installing a Wilwood 1" dual master. They called me saying there was something wrong because the brake pedal was still spongy after power bleeding the brakes several times. I told them to put it on a hoist and I would come look at it. The brake adjustment was too loose on every wheel. I stood there and explained how to adjust them and watched them do it. Viola! The brakes worked great!

Sometimes you will have to adjust one or two what seems like a little too tight because of the 'click' position on the adjuster cam. That's fine, the shoes will wear in.

[r1lark]

Ok, I feel a lot better about this now, Thanks River and Esteban!

[r1lark]

Progress!! Using RiverPatrol's method of adjusting the brakes, I've gotten a much better pedal after just adjusting the front brakes (and they still need some fine tuning). Hurray!

I must say that these are the most sensitive drum brakes from an adjustment standpoint that I had ever encountered.

The fine tuning of the fronts, and adjusting the rears, will have to wait for another day however. The Patrol is outside on a large carport, and it is quite cold (at least for North Carolina), and we are having some high winds. I can stand the cold, but that wind bites right thru you!

River, thank you very much for your expert advice!